A TV talk-show to share the truth – 邱越:《你正常吗》怎样让中国人说出真心话 – English

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邱越从武大毕业后便成了“北漂”。2011年,她从工作四年北京电视台加盟了腾讯。三年之后,30岁的她担任制片人的腾讯自制视频真人秀节目《你正常吗》收视逼近三亿,成为全网历史上单期播放量最高的原创节目。她是怎样让中国人全民说“真心话”的?

文/李梓新

6月12日,上海马戏城附近的一间录影棚里,蔡康永和林志玲正在和主持人华少与Ella陈嘉桦插科打诨。这是腾讯自制的第一部真人秀节目《你正常吗》的最后一期。盛装打扮的制片人邱越参加了下午的庆功会,淡定地站在台下。30岁的她完成人生中至今最大的项目。

2011年,本科毕业工作四年的邱越从北京电视台加盟了腾讯。之前她在北京台做的是社会新闻类的节目。而加盟腾讯之后,她要操刀的是综艺节目。她可能没有料到,她已经站到一个全新的起点。三年之后,她担任制片人的腾讯自制视频真人秀节目《你正常吗》收视逼近三亿,成为全网历史上单期播放量最高的原创节目。

祖籍贵州,在武汉长大,就读于武汉大学新闻学院广电专业的邱越,毕业后便成了“北漂”。之前她已经在央视《今日关注》节目实习了一年,毕业后有希望留下工作,因为新闻理想拒掉了其他OFFER。到了北京才知道由于央视改制,留不下来了。她和在北京准备律考的男友一起“失业”在家。“想北漂没漂着,那个时候年轻,反而觉得很快乐,自己在家做饭看书,还报了个英语班,不识愁滋味。”四五个月后,她才被介绍到北京电视台工作。四年下来,她已经感受到在体制内电视台工作的天花板。

六月初的一天,坐在上海陆家嘴的一家云南菜餐厅,我问邱越,是不是感觉到自己正坐在一艘火箭上?

我是在今年4月中看到《你正常吗》这档节目的。网络红人“管阿姨”在朋友圈转发了这档节目的链接。这位来自杭州的麻辣内衣店主,在节目中和优质偶像吴奇隆一起答题博奖金。不只是这种普通达人和明星亲密接触缩短观众的距离感,还更在于他们答题的内容和方式很新颖。

题目大多数是我们生活中难登大雅之堂的小癖好或者小秘密,比如“男生上厕所偷瞄长短正常吗?”、“女性不穿胸罩出门正常吗?”、“喜欢把手插米缸里正常吗?”,根据大约1000万网友在微信做的大数据调查结果回答来判断嘉宾回答是否正确。如节目宣传所说,这是“全民真心话”

《你正常吗》第八期,过节最怕被长辈问什么?

可以说,这是我迄今为止看到的第一部真正用互联网思维制作的视频节目。互联网思维喊了那么久,电视台的真人秀节目还只停留在无关痛痒的观众微博互动或者网络投票上。而《你正常吗》挠到的痒处在于通过网民数据调查,让每个人发现自己的小癖好小习惯居然不孤单。

“这个节目的核心是要反映小众价值观和大众价值观的冲突,反映个人的行为和道德判断之间的冲突。比如‘在公共泳池小便正常吗’这样的题目,很多人都认为不好,但却会忍不住去做。”邱越说。对于一个迅速转型,价值观急剧重塑的社会,这样的冲突俯拾皆是,却又发人思考。

节目中有一个问题让我印象深刻:“最近五年你的哪方面变动最大?理想、恋人还是手机号码?”结果有60%的人选择了理想,主持人华少说,因为换理想的成本比较低。理想的多变正是时下的典型状态。华少说:“通过这个问题请大家反思一下理想在自己生命当中的重量。”

第一季的《你正常吗》共十期,腾讯选择了曾经打造出《波士堂》等节目的唯众传媒合作,在上海录制。邱越经常一周北京一周上海来回督阵。“每天从早上10点半工作到晚上一两点。有时候在想自己为什么要这么累。但这就是我喜欢的事啊,为什么熬夜打游戏没人会说什么,熬夜工作就会被骂呢?”

这期间,一直伴随她在北京生活了六七年的爱猫“右右”因为疾病去世了,让邱越很伤心:“It feels exactly the same as losing a relative. Youyou got lost once for a whole month, and has left injuries. We’ve been to many hospitals, and we got the cat from our friend to do the blood-transfusion, but it came to futile effort in the end.” But before one program recording in Shanghai, Youyou left her, for good. She thinks that her personality is kind of alike with a cat, she goes slow to get started, she is emotional but never express herself initiatively, and social activities are just not her thing, “the most terrifying thing is that everybody just gather together and add wechat even if we don’t know each other. The passed-away Youyou was exactly the same.

邱越怀抱现已去世的右右

Qiuyue’s team mostly are generations after 80s and 90s, “They call me sis”. This is an experience that you will never gain in the TV station. Those colleges think she is kind of in pursuit of perfection since she was born on the first day of Virgo. This female-leading group of over seven people, is creating more and more creative and novel TV programs by coordinating internal and external resources continuously.

The era that they are catching up to, meets the most investments of homemade programs by various competing internet tycoons. The key qualification to the success of reality shows, quoting the chief director of “The Voice of China”, Jinlei : “it depends on whether it can reflect the motion of the society.” Every film producer has to seize the changeable “pulse” of the society without rest. The books Qiuyue reads in leisure time are mostly related to trends and management, like Out of control, Netflix Legend etc.

Nevertheless, the most fascinating moment in her career turns out to be the participation of the report of American Presidential Election in Tencent reporting team in2012. On that day of election, she was moved inexplicably, watching the Americans voting in a countryside polling station in Indiana.

Now, as a chief film producer of Tencent entertaining and cultural programs, Qiuyue has started preparing for the fourth season of a homemade music program this year except for the instant deriving programs of “The voice of China”. They are going to cooperate with SZTV to create a new mode of music program. She will be busy travelling to Shanghai and Shenzhen in the next period. The busy work makes the plan of giving birth of babies delayed constantly, and new programs are like new-born babies, never stopping.

“不过,如果真怀了孩子,工作也是可以放弃的”。邱越说。第一次录像

节目第一次录影

“这个节目实际上是个talk show”

Sandwich: “When did the homemade programs of Tencent begin?”

Qiuyue: “Around the period of World Expo and World Cup in 2010. When I just got into Tencent, the studio centre was switched from the advisory board to the video department, and it suddenly became a hotspot department, especially in the recent years. This trend is sometimes difficult to master even by ourselves. I remember that time when I first got in, the major project for this company was still Microblog.”

Sandwich: “When did you start to plan the program “Are you normal?”?”

Qiuyue: “Last October, the mode of that program was imported from the states. Opera Winfrey tested this idea in one of her special programs, then it developed into a program mode, in her pay channels. The copyright was owned by an British company, we discussed with them about importing the copyright.”

“Then we started to form a team, we chose Weizhong Media in the first place. They actually started from doing financial programs, they did “Boss Town”, “Speaking!” and “Speak Out Loud”. Doing entertaining programs is a new try, so breaking the original thoughts was painful, both for Weizhong and for us.

和唯众制作团队

三明治:准备过程是怎样的?内部是怎样协调的。

邱越:Actually the time was very tight, it just came in after the Spring festival, there were only 2 months until April 10th, when the broadcast began. 做节目运营是非常重要的一块,综艺运营中心专门有几个人负责这个节目,市场部负责投放,产品部主要负责互动游戏和微信页面,我们在微信上开了一个专门的公众账号,现在大概有1000万用户来参与游戏,为节目提供了大数据来源。有时候我们会根据热点来推题目,比如文章出轨的时候,我们就推“老婆怀孕的时候,出轨正常吗?”我们总共投入的人力大概50多人,比唯众还多。

三明治:节目版权引进之后,本土化是非常重要的工作,你们是怎样进行的?

邱越:原版节目是一款Game Show,是以赢取大额奖金为刺激,所有题目都比较泛娱乐,尺度比较大,很多涉及两性问题。本土化以后,这个节目实际上是一个talk show. 观众看的不是奖金刺激,而是主持人和嘉宾在聊的内容。这是最本质的区别。节目的内核已经发生了变化。

原版的题库有300多道题,能采用的很少。题库上主要是唯众主导提出,由我们审核。我们一起讨论出了很多适合本土的题目。比如原版的问题,“你有没有在卧室以外的地方做爱过?”这样的题目是个人问题,没有什么意思。而我们采用的题目是“如果伴侣性功能不行,你会不会和TA分手?”这就思考了中国传统观念里面,性和爱究竟在感情关系占多大的比重?

另外我们还在街头采访的环节进行了创新,原版是比较简单的是或者不是,我们觉得不能做得像央视“你幸福吗”那种气质,我们调了几期,终于把受访者的情绪调动出来了,有的不好意思,有的自豪,有的谐趣。这是本土化另一个很重要的点。原版模式制片人

邱越和原版模式制片人

拒绝马佳佳, let normal people accomplish their dreams.

Sandwich;How can we get the big data of internet users observation before the first program started?

Qiuyue: We have started our process of gaining attention two weeks ago. We place our information in Tencent video and news clients which have a massive flow of visitors, while using logos with attraction and time effectiveness. We got the response of the net friends as soon as we distribute our interactive games on WeChat. We have gained over 2 million samples before the first programme was shown. We were worried about the capacity of samples at first, however, we found it nothing afterwards. The original version of this programme was internet-based, they (the former producers) use the conclusion of the investigation company, the capacity of samples was only 1250.

Sandwich: That was a great difference! The massive number of Chinese internet users really has a huge power. Why and how did the the host choose Ella? Her performance really made many people look at her with new eyes.

Qiuyue: Huashao(a famous male host in China) started to cooperate with us since we had the programme The famous star has come, that’s the reason why the other host must be female. We chose Ella because we saw another programme Having a date with the prince she host in Taiwan with Halin. She hadn’t ever host a programme in mainland yet at that time. She is showing her own character in this programme , very cute and kittenish, relaxed and active. She was so true to herself that her agent was worried about that it would harm her “perfect figure”. However, the internet friends like her. Huashao is also comparatively relaxed in this programme, totally released. She was the type that could continuously give us surprises. Huashao is responsible for the conformity of the circumstances. We shot our outdoor scene in Disney Park.

和Ella陈嘉桦在迪斯尼拍摄外景

Sandwich: The “Internet friends experience group” was also outstanding. How did you arrange that?

Qiuyue: This is also selected by the viewers. We have some impressive participants this time, such as a 59-year-old woman who has received plastic surgery for over 20 times, a 48-year-old male virgin and so on. We have insisted on one idea, that all the story told by the “experience group” is true, the stories are all their own experience, not artificial. Actually they are extreme minority, representing their own value. They stand out to tell their own story, and they can be approved as well.

Sandwich: Internet friends are usually chosen by Weizhong media, how did you find the famous stars?

Qiuyue:We are responsible for the stars. We seldom pay expense to the artists, unlike the commercial performance. Our first order to the artists is that they should be natural, not pretending, and experiences are needed as well, to be mature enough.

三明治:第一期选择吴奇隆还是很爆的。

邱越:当然我们第一期还是想选择有号召力的明星,老少通吃的那种。后面就有多元化的尝试。比如这次DR魏的那期,收视率就很好。我们想让明星在现场的状态,输和赢,他们对每个问题的思考,都是很真实的。

三明治:每期的素人嘉宾和明星嘉宾之间的搭档是怎么选择的?

邱越:一般都是先定明星,然后从素人库中挑选合适的候选人进行面试,这个面试一直在进行。男女、年龄这些都是搭配的因素。我们选择的是大多是纯素人,不是网络红人。我们这个节目的精神是普通人来实现心愿,而且这个心愿一般是非常个人化生活化的,不是高大上的,这不能设门槛。我们是找普通人中有表现力的,不怯明星的,能大胆表达观点,玩得起来的那种。在这一点上我们和唯众曾经有过分歧,他们想用马佳佳,我们觉得用了马佳佳之后,节目的调性都会变了。最后还是没用。我们需要接地气。

三明治:田朴珺那期明星和素人嘉宾的距离感就比较大,但很好的一点是你们会自嘲,比如拍出两个人的手放在推杆上的距离,加上字幕说那是世界上最远的距离。这点就挺好的。这些字幕是怎么构思和加上去的。

邱越:这一点我们也有过反复,原版的节目是没有这种综艺包装的。我们慢慢寻找出自己的风格。后期的制作对节目很关键,有时节目现场做得略有些浅,我们可以通过字幕包装来做出深度。再后来我们又做了飞幕,是把网友看节目现场的感受滚动发上来,是产品部门的一种尝试。这对我们做节目是很有用的,能从网友的反应看到节目的爆点在哪里。

三明治:直到看DR魏的那一期之前,我还有点怀疑你们会透题给嘉宾,保证节目进行得比较精彩。但是“最强大脑”的DR魏却在第二阶段的第一题就答错出局了。

邱越:那一场很有意思。他们在第一阶段答得很好,几乎全对了。但是第二阶段第一题,他就答错了。本来他也信心满满的,但事实就是这么戏剧化。华少是知道答案的,他有时会根据情况做出引导。但那一题实在拉不回来。我们也不会进行重录。本来还让他试做了后面的题目,但发现他情绪已经很down,后来就没有用。明星到了那个时候还是会有得失心的。12187408

6月19日,第一季最后一期《你正常吗》播出,在上海黄浦江边建筑群打出了广告

“终极目标是做到实时互动”

Sandwich: what have you felt the most after we have done ten times of programs in this quarter?

Qin Yue: The first quarter was a new attempt. Some people say we are not a network show, because mainstream network drama shows are just like shit. I believe that internet shows have programs with spirit of the internet, rather than vulgar. Some people say that network programs must be short, but in fact if you show attractive enough, the reader will come into time.

我们最想体现的是不同价值观的多元化碰撞。像那个帮丈母娘洗内裤的男生,真是刷新了我的三观,但他自己的状态是很幸福的,我们也要认可他的存在。这点是和电视很不一样的。电视做节目,价值观是和谐统一的,要表达一个主题。尺度、监管这些的不同是其次的,实际上如果把我们节目里大尺度的那些对话删掉,这个节目仍然是成立的。我们不是靠大尺度吸引人的。

三明治:对你个人来说,从做社会新闻出身,到现在全身心投入综艺节目,个人感受有冲突么?

邱越:其实我觉得有做新闻的背景出身对做节目挺好的,你能敏锐地感觉到用户喜欢什么东西。我并没有觉得太多的不适应。除了我自己不太想和明星打交道之外。做娱乐节目也非常需要敏感性,包括在推广运营上找准点,新闻背景都有帮助的。现在网络流量上,明星纯八卦不是点击最高的。而有些话题是一定有流量的,比如买房、要孩子这些。像我们做《大牌驾到》节目说到邓超毕业的时候因为丢掉了北京户口而喝醉酒,一下子就火了,得到了很多网友的共鸣。大家一定要看到自己相关的东西。

三明治:这次节目的投入能透露么?

邱越:不太方便透露,但我们肯定是赚钱了。主赞助“膜天下”是思妍丽的一个品牌。

三明治:这个节目未来的形态会是怎么样?

邱越:一定要做新的,不能跟风。接下来节目的互动是一个大方向。《你正常吗》算是迈出了一小步,网民的互动真正影响到了内容。但这个互动还不是同步互动,这个节目的终极目标,还是直播,在线上抛出一个问题,同时在线的网友马上回答来影响这个节目的进程,现场没有一个人知道结果是什么,这才是最刺激的东西。另外就是观看伴随型的互动,就像看球赛一样,随时可以押宝,还可以看到我的好友在押什么,这是基于人际关系链的互动,接下来也要多尝试。

三明治:平时你也看电视、电影么?

Qiu Yue: I also chase US drama, and “Grey’s Anatomy” is my favorite one, which I was watching since I was a college student. There were 10 seasons in total, and I never missed one of them because in this I reflected a lot of humanity, or stuffs like ethics. This is my favorite, the first time I saw the film called “The Avatar”, I cried a lot when I got out of the cinema, mainly because I was impressed with the humanity, not the special effects. Just like when we do our show, we follow the same procedure, what I want to do the most is to be able to reflect this show with social status and the changes between relationships

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Source : China 30s

About julien.leyre

French-Australian writer, educator, sinophile. Any question? Contact julien@marcopoloproject.org